Forum: SDL Trados support
Topic: Correcting alignment in Trados 2014
Poster: Andrew052
Post title: In Reply to Comments by Farkas
Hi, Farkas.
Thanks a lot for commenting on the procedure.
I have atually posted a request for any comments or alternative procedures in the post "Translation Memory Without Alighnment"
But, as I have commented on the post "please exclude any references to winalign-based procedures".
You have to think about the scale, not the quality in case 1 and the other way around in case 2.
Case 1:
1. You have 50 files (this is oil and gas for me), these 50 files are in pdfs, they contain various columns, names of details with arrows pointing to components at a figure, tables -- something like a magazine (not the economist type, but you know, like Vogue or Cosmopolitan). You don't have any time to do something about aligning these documents, but you WANT to have them in your TM. The verb "want" clearly identifies that it's you who decides on how you would process with the task in question. You might do alignment or you might do "pseudo-memory". If it is a formal request from a customer or a translation company, folks down there would not want to receive some kinda "pseudo-memory" (whatever that means), but they need to get a TM!
I have approximately 300 files (pdfs, Cosmopolitan-style in my pseudo-memory for a particular segment of oil and gas) that I use to identify any "large-scale" hits -- I mean 20-30 pages of text or when I desperately need to find a translation of a term (for some reasons, difficult term, first-time term, argument as to how to translate the term within the team).
If I send you 300 files today and ask you to prepare the TM in 1 week (with no money paid and consequently no time allocated by you as you are a freelancer), you might not want to do this... I, on the other hand, would be able to do this FOR FREE, as it's going take me only 2 hours to create the tmx files in memo, then put the second notebook nearby, and then just import a next tmx into my TM after the previous one has been completed. It's virtually going to take me 2 hours to create tmx files and click every 30 minutes afterwards.
Now, your procedure about winaligning and xls as a back-up. Have you ever done this with 50 files? If you do, how??? Because I have just opened a file with a 50-page four-column table with no dots at the end of sentences, numericals and letters-numericals all the place around and lots of schematics. How on eath would you be able to take A SINGLE file into xl, put the the source and target near each other? How would you be able to align the file, if, (such cases are reasonably expected, as a specialists might and does require translation of a particular section of a file), if you have a translation for only 23 out of 72 pages in file 25, the rest of the file has not been translated for some reason. And such a file has translation of pages 1-6, 20-32, 64-72? Just imagine, opening the win-align results and doing something about the aligned results!
Now, you can 1) automatically align a file and then add to the memory (you have 50 files, 60 pages each in source language), 2) ??? I really don't know what you are going to do next. Probably, you would say "bummer" and close the winalign. Because if you import the winalign results in your TM, you would get mislaligned text all the way down (read- downtown), so you would reasonably decide not to do anything at all. Now, you can import the winalign result into your TM and PLACE A MARKER FOR THE SEGMENTS FOR THIS PARTICULAR FILE. Then, you would have to put the source and target in a folder, name it "5". Then, when you translate you go to that file and copypaste the term/text. (no xl is feasible due to complexity of the file; anyway, even if it is feabile to import the files in xl, what you gonna do when you 15 files in your xl, create sheet number 2, number 3, -- I mean, once again, just place files in the folders; in my case, translation from English into Russian, you would have (after 5 files) English text at line 1000 and Russian text at line 1234, just because Russian is longer and you do not have any identification as to when one sentence is finished in the Russian translation as you don't have dots, no nothing, nada).
Case 2:
You never work with large-scale projects, TMs and "files for fun" (i.e. nothing required to be done with them, just in case you might be bored and read, like a couple of ks of pages with a cup of tea before going to sleep). You receive a 30-page file, you mis-align it, you place it in xl, you open xl and find the needed stuff in xl. OR you can actually get it done correctly, as you ARE REQUIRED to prepare a TM, so that you or other translators may use the TM and won't have to "rammage" across the your files register system.
So, in brief, been there done that. I mean, if you need a solution for a small-scale project -- like 100 pages in each of 3 files and that's it. Then winalign them, add them to your TM, open your 3 pds and ctrl-f the terms in those one by one (as any import into xl would not be feasible). OR you can just create three folders, name them 1, 2, 3, create pseudo-memory. When you have a hit, see to your right that it's file No. 2, open the source and target, find what you need. Even when we speak about such a small-scale project, this folder system beats the procedure you describe at any time (once again, import in xl is not feasible; because the moment it becomes feasible, you just import the source and target into xl and winalign the xl or prep the tmx in memo).
P.S.
Just take a Cosmopolitan and try creating any usable TM on the basis of this file (if you have tachnical documentation and specifications, or marketing materials, it's just the same in terms of formating in a file; it's not a 50 contract in word with separate passages in separate lines of word table).
[url removed]
try winalign and xl back-up a page in the link.
I mean, c'mon, know-it-all approach never works when you have peer-review-style forums like this one. I really think that if an interpreter takes on this approach, they might benefit from it immensely (as I have been doing for quite some time), but if an interpreter reads some post "NO" like this one, they would think -- it's a bad procedure, but the fact is -- you show me a better one, I would send you 100 bucks!
If you fail to see the usefulness of this procedure, it means nothing actually. I mean I know several translators who see no usefulness in trados or cats as such, or I know a guy who sees no usefullness in using shortcuts in trados, what's you gonna about that? But, anyhow, these folks would not not take time to write a peer review on somebody's procedure?
Topic: Correcting alignment in Trados 2014
Poster: Andrew052
Post title: In Reply to Comments by Farkas
Hi, Farkas.
Thanks a lot for commenting on the procedure.
I have atually posted a request for any comments or alternative procedures in the post "Translation Memory Without Alighnment"
But, as I have commented on the post "please exclude any references to winalign-based procedures".
You have to think about the scale, not the quality in case 1 and the other way around in case 2.
Case 1:
1. You have 50 files (this is oil and gas for me), these 50 files are in pdfs, they contain various columns, names of details with arrows pointing to components at a figure, tables -- something like a magazine (not the economist type, but you know, like Vogue or Cosmopolitan). You don't have any time to do something about aligning these documents, but you WANT to have them in your TM. The verb "want" clearly identifies that it's you who decides on how you would process with the task in question. You might do alignment or you might do "pseudo-memory". If it is a formal request from a customer or a translation company, folks down there would not want to receive some kinda "pseudo-memory" (whatever that means), but they need to get a TM!
I have approximately 300 files (pdfs, Cosmopolitan-style in my pseudo-memory for a particular segment of oil and gas) that I use to identify any "large-scale" hits -- I mean 20-30 pages of text or when I desperately need to find a translation of a term (for some reasons, difficult term, first-time term, argument as to how to translate the term within the team).
If I send you 300 files today and ask you to prepare the TM in 1 week (with no money paid and consequently no time allocated by you as you are a freelancer), you might not want to do this... I, on the other hand, would be able to do this FOR FREE, as it's going take me only 2 hours to create the tmx files in memo, then put the second notebook nearby, and then just import a next tmx into my TM after the previous one has been completed. It's virtually going to take me 2 hours to create tmx files and click every 30 minutes afterwards.
Now, your procedure about winaligning and xls as a back-up. Have you ever done this with 50 files? If you do, how??? Because I have just opened a file with a 50-page four-column table with no dots at the end of sentences, numericals and letters-numericals all the place around and lots of schematics. How on eath would you be able to take A SINGLE file into xl, put the the source and target near each other? How would you be able to align the file, if, (such cases are reasonably expected, as a specialists might and does require translation of a particular section of a file), if you have a translation for only 23 out of 72 pages in file 25, the rest of the file has not been translated for some reason. And such a file has translation of pages 1-6, 20-32, 64-72? Just imagine, opening the win-align results and doing something about the aligned results!
Now, you can 1) automatically align a file and then add to the memory (you have 50 files, 60 pages each in source language), 2) ??? I really don't know what you are going to do next. Probably, you would say "bummer" and close the winalign. Because if you import the winalign results in your TM, you would get mislaligned text all the way down (read- downtown), so you would reasonably decide not to do anything at all. Now, you can import the winalign result into your TM and PLACE A MARKER FOR THE SEGMENTS FOR THIS PARTICULAR FILE. Then, you would have to put the source and target in a folder, name it "5". Then, when you translate you go to that file and copypaste the term/text. (no xl is feasible due to complexity of the file; anyway, even if it is feabile to import the files in xl, what you gonna do when you 15 files in your xl, create sheet number 2, number 3, -- I mean, once again, just place files in the folders; in my case, translation from English into Russian, you would have (after 5 files) English text at line 1000 and Russian text at line 1234, just because Russian is longer and you do not have any identification as to when one sentence is finished in the Russian translation as you don't have dots, no nothing, nada).
Case 2:
You never work with large-scale projects, TMs and "files for fun" (i.e. nothing required to be done with them, just in case you might be bored and read, like a couple of ks of pages with a cup of tea before going to sleep). You receive a 30-page file, you mis-align it, you place it in xl, you open xl and find the needed stuff in xl. OR you can actually get it done correctly, as you ARE REQUIRED to prepare a TM, so that you or other translators may use the TM and won't have to "rammage" across the your files register system.
So, in brief, been there done that. I mean, if you need a solution for a small-scale project -- like 100 pages in each of 3 files and that's it. Then winalign them, add them to your TM, open your 3 pds and ctrl-f the terms in those one by one (as any import into xl would not be feasible). OR you can just create three folders, name them 1, 2, 3, create pseudo-memory. When you have a hit, see to your right that it's file No. 2, open the source and target, find what you need. Even when we speak about such a small-scale project, this folder system beats the procedure you describe at any time (once again, import in xl is not feasible; because the moment it becomes feasible, you just import the source and target into xl and winalign the xl or prep the tmx in memo).
P.S.
Just take a Cosmopolitan and try creating any usable TM on the basis of this file (if you have tachnical documentation and specifications, or marketing materials, it's just the same in terms of formating in a file; it's not a 50 contract in word with separate passages in separate lines of word table).
[url removed]
try winalign and xl back-up a page in the link.
I mean, c'mon, know-it-all approach never works when you have peer-review-style forums like this one. I really think that if an interpreter takes on this approach, they might benefit from it immensely (as I have been doing for quite some time), but if an interpreter reads some post "NO" like this one, they would think -- it's a bad procedure, but the fact is -- you show me a better one, I would send you 100 bucks!
If you fail to see the usefulness of this procedure, it means nothing actually. I mean I know several translators who see no usefulness in trados or cats as such, or I know a guy who sees no usefullness in using shortcuts in trados, what's you gonna about that? But, anyhow, these folks would not not take time to write a peer review on somebody's procedure?